Jesus had to deal with a lot of gatekeepers too...in the end I find solace in the idea that, I too, simply AM that I AM.
Only in recent years have I been able to obsess less over whether or not I had "right beliefs", but in doing so I believe I've found it much easier to participate in "right doing".
Good luck. Figuring this stuff out, as always you are more than welcome to reach out and we can wrestle over some of this stuff together...a lot of people find it helpful.
My mom is Christian, she would share with me verses from the Bible, I remember one in particular that's always stayed with me. It was something along the lines of not pointing out the splinter in my eye while you have a tree branch in yours. My take away was she wanted me to love others and leave the judgement for God. We all have our faults and short comings, for someone to say you aren't a true Christian seems like the least Christian thing to say.
”“Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. You’ll receive the same judgment you give. Whatever you deal out will be dealt out to you. Why do you see the splinter that’s in your brother’s or sister’s eye, but don’t notice the log in your own eye? How can you say to your brother or sister, ‘Let me take the splinter out of your eye,’ when there’s a log in your eye? You deceive yourself! First take the log out of your eye, and then you’ll see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s or sister’s eye.“
But surely, in historical terms, we must acknowledge that persecuting heretics (real or perceived) is one of the MOST Christian thing to do?
Conflicts--even violent conflicts--about orthodoxy and Christian religious philosophy happened almost immediately once the Jesus cult started to gain any kind of following in the Common Era, and seemingly no sooner did one of these conflicts resolve itself (again, sometimes through violence, sometimes by other means of direct persecution, although also occasionally just by the prevailing popularity of one idea over another) than another would emerge.
And we all know anecdotally that this is not merely a historical phenomena but one that continues on a pew-to-pew basis--any church of any significant size will indulge in doctrinal bickering sooner rather than later and will enforce the perspective of the influential majority through interpersonal persecution, and even as we speak there are several examples just in the US of denominational fracturing over such conflicts. It seems at best strained to call this un-Christian in light of the fact that it is as close to universal as any behavior in the history of the faith.
Some churches tithe, some baptize some give confession, some speak in tongues--but all of them persecute, or so close to all of them that it's almost impossible to sift out those who may not.
The point I was trying to make was that the passage I mentioned was from the Christian holy book saying not to judge others, while Mr. McPherson was pointing out the fact that he was being judged by someone who claims they follow the teachings of this book, this contradiction is what I was defining as "unchristian". I'm not disputing what you're saying, I completely agree that many followers of religions disregard their own holy texts or teachings that don't align with their own biases and prejudices. I simply trying to highlight this hypocrisy.
So I might be the friend who says have some bourbon and move on. However these three shall remain Bourbon, Rye, and Scotch and the greatest of these is Scotch (with a preference towards Peated Scotch).
But in all seriousness I think you need to distinguish between belief and faith. Or maybe simply define faith. For most xians especially evangelical faith is actually just a set of beliefs. The problem is that Jesus did not really talk about what you think or believe (that was Paul and other BS) Jesus as recorded in the gospels was about what you do and how you treat people.
So what does it mean to be a Christian? I don't have a clue. I don't think it's a useful term anymore. I know what it means when someone says they are an evangelical xian (it means I need to be careful). I know what it means if someone says they are UCC or Disciples. But all that is about what they believe. I don't actually jack shit about how they treat people.
For me the belief is not worth it. I don't actually think there is a being out there we can call god unless Kevin Smith is right and the voice of God sounds like Prof Snape. All I know is if they treat my family with respect, use my kiddo's pronouns, and does not vote for a racist asshats.
So yes verily I say unto you all love others to the best of your ability and do everything you can to burn down what is left of the evangelical church. (Honestly the success of the Christian nationalists in taking over the evangelical church is a great argument for there not being a god who gives a rats ass.)
I love language and etymology. There is no difference between faith and belief. One comes to us from the French/Latin (faith). The other is Germanic (belief). When I was a missionary in Germany, I had to deal with that all the time. There was only one word in German for these 2 terms. In English we give nuances between the two. “Faith” might have more of a relationship with feelings while belief might have more to do with knowledge.
Love your comments! I am partial to gin and tonic right now. 😏
I'm confused: Is the problem that your religious myths don't make literal sense or seem historically true, or is it that people who might otherwise be your peers are berating you about their own ideological standards?
I mean, I realize both of those are a problem, of course--but I don't see how this blog connects one to the other. -Dw
They go hand in hand. I’m ok with most of the religious figurative language. I’m less ok with not being accepted. Me questioning the figurative stories in the Bible has led to me being not accepted.
Jesus had to deal with a lot of gatekeepers too...in the end I find solace in the idea that, I too, simply AM that I AM.
Only in recent years have I been able to obsess less over whether or not I had "right beliefs", but in doing so I believe I've found it much easier to participate in "right doing".
Good luck. Figuring this stuff out, as always you are more than welcome to reach out and we can wrestle over some of this stuff together...a lot of people find it helpful.
I might just take you up on that offer.
My mom is Christian, she would share with me verses from the Bible, I remember one in particular that's always stayed with me. It was something along the lines of not pointing out the splinter in my eye while you have a tree branch in yours. My take away was she wanted me to love others and leave the judgement for God. We all have our faults and short comings, for someone to say you aren't a true Christian seems like the least Christian thing to say.
“To say you aren’t a true Christian seems like the least Christian thing to say.” I absolutely love this and agree!
Here are those verses:
”“Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. You’ll receive the same judgment you give. Whatever you deal out will be dealt out to you. Why do you see the splinter that’s in your brother’s or sister’s eye, but don’t notice the log in your own eye? How can you say to your brother or sister, ‘Let me take the splinter out of your eye,’ when there’s a log in your eye? You deceive yourself! First take the log out of your eye, and then you’ll see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s or sister’s eye.“
Matthew 7:1-5 CEB
But surely, in historical terms, we must acknowledge that persecuting heretics (real or perceived) is one of the MOST Christian thing to do?
Conflicts--even violent conflicts--about orthodoxy and Christian religious philosophy happened almost immediately once the Jesus cult started to gain any kind of following in the Common Era, and seemingly no sooner did one of these conflicts resolve itself (again, sometimes through violence, sometimes by other means of direct persecution, although also occasionally just by the prevailing popularity of one idea over another) than another would emerge.
And we all know anecdotally that this is not merely a historical phenomena but one that continues on a pew-to-pew basis--any church of any significant size will indulge in doctrinal bickering sooner rather than later and will enforce the perspective of the influential majority through interpersonal persecution, and even as we speak there are several examples just in the US of denominational fracturing over such conflicts. It seems at best strained to call this un-Christian in light of the fact that it is as close to universal as any behavior in the history of the faith.
Some churches tithe, some baptize some give confession, some speak in tongues--but all of them persecute, or so close to all of them that it's almost impossible to sift out those who may not.
The point I was trying to make was that the passage I mentioned was from the Christian holy book saying not to judge others, while Mr. McPherson was pointing out the fact that he was being judged by someone who claims they follow the teachings of this book, this contradiction is what I was defining as "unchristian". I'm not disputing what you're saying, I completely agree that many followers of religions disregard their own holy texts or teachings that don't align with their own biases and prejudices. I simply trying to highlight this hypocrisy.
So I might be the friend who says have some bourbon and move on. However these three shall remain Bourbon, Rye, and Scotch and the greatest of these is Scotch (with a preference towards Peated Scotch).
But in all seriousness I think you need to distinguish between belief and faith. Or maybe simply define faith. For most xians especially evangelical faith is actually just a set of beliefs. The problem is that Jesus did not really talk about what you think or believe (that was Paul and other BS) Jesus as recorded in the gospels was about what you do and how you treat people.
So what does it mean to be a Christian? I don't have a clue. I don't think it's a useful term anymore. I know what it means when someone says they are an evangelical xian (it means I need to be careful). I know what it means if someone says they are UCC or Disciples. But all that is about what they believe. I don't actually jack shit about how they treat people.
For me the belief is not worth it. I don't actually think there is a being out there we can call god unless Kevin Smith is right and the voice of God sounds like Prof Snape. All I know is if they treat my family with respect, use my kiddo's pronouns, and does not vote for a racist asshats.
So yes verily I say unto you all love others to the best of your ability and do everything you can to burn down what is left of the evangelical church. (Honestly the success of the Christian nationalists in taking over the evangelical church is a great argument for there not being a god who gives a rats ass.)
I love language and etymology. There is no difference between faith and belief. One comes to us from the French/Latin (faith). The other is Germanic (belief). When I was a missionary in Germany, I had to deal with that all the time. There was only one word in German for these 2 terms. In English we give nuances between the two. “Faith” might have more of a relationship with feelings while belief might have more to do with knowledge.
Love your comments! I am partial to gin and tonic right now. 😏
I'm confused: Is the problem that your religious myths don't make literal sense or seem historically true, or is it that people who might otherwise be your peers are berating you about their own ideological standards?
I mean, I realize both of those are a problem, of course--but I don't see how this blog connects one to the other. -Dw
They go hand in hand. I’m ok with most of the religious figurative language. I’m less ok with not being accepted. Me questioning the figurative stories in the Bible has led to me being not accepted.